Full Episode: “Finding Your Spiritual Path (Season 23, Ep. 180)” | The Oprah Winfrey Show | OWN

WELL, I DON’T Visualize THERE’S ANYONE OUT THERE WHO DOESN’T WANT TO FEEL MORE CONNECTED, MORE PRESENT, AND MORE ALIVE THIS YEAR. THAT’S WHAT I CALL SPIRITUALITY — BEING CONNECTED, PRESENT, AND ALIVE. AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I NOT ONLY LOVE TO TALK ABOUT BUT TRY TO ALSO WALK THIS WALK. THE BEST DAYS FOR ME ARE DAYS WHEN I HAVE THOSE SPIRITUAL “AHA” MOMENTS THAT YOU’RE GONNA SEE SOME OF THOSE LATER ON IN THE SHOW TODAY. AND WHETHER YOU’RE RELIGIOUS OR NOT, I HOPE THAT THIS SHOW WILL BEGIN TO HELP YOU FIND A DEEPER CONNECTION TO BEGIN TO LIVE A RICHER, MORE-FULFILLING LIFE, TO UNDERSTAND WHY YOU’RE REALLY HERE ON EARTH. AND BEFORE WE GET STARTED, I Crave US ALL JUST TO TAKE A DEEP BREATH WHEREVER YOU ARE LISTENING TO ME, WATCHING RIGHT NOW.[ INHALES DEEPLY] LET’S BREATHE OURSELVES INTO THIS PRESENT MOMENT. THANK YOU FOR THAT.OKAY, FOR OUR “BEST LIFE” CLASS TODAY — OOH — WE’RE JOINED BY SOME OF MY FAVORITE SPIRITUAL TEACHERS. REVEREND MICHAEL BERNARD BECKWITH, WHO’S THE FOUNDER OF AGAPE INTERNATIONAL SPIRITUAL CENTER — ALL OF YOU AGAPE MEMBERS OUT THERE, YES, HE’S HERE — AND AUTHOR OF THE NEW SPIRITUAL BOOK THAT’S CALLED “SPIRITUAL LIBERATION”. AND ELIZABETH LESSER WHO’S THE AUTHOR OF “THE SEEKER’S GUIDE” AND “BROKEN OPEN”. SHE Likewise CO-FOUNDED THE OMEGA INSTITUTE. AND THE REVEREND ED BACON, WHO IS RECTOR OF ALL SAINTS EPISCOPAL CHURCH IN PASADENA, WHO DOESN’T HAVE A BOOK, BUT WELCOME. THANK YOU. I Predict BOOKS.[ LAUGHTER] THAT’S Delightful. YES. I Speak THEIR BOOKS. HE Predicts THEIR BOOKS. REVEREND ED, WE’RE GONNA START WITH YOU. LET’S DEFINE SPIRITUALITY. GO AHEAD. TELL US WHAT YOU THINK IT MEANS. WELL, I AGREE WITH YOU ABOUT CONNECTION. IT IS ABOUT OUR BEING CONNECTED WITH ONE ANOTHER AND BEING CONNECTED WITH THE COSMOS. IT IS THE PROCESS OF BEING HEALED, FORGIVEN, EMPOWERED, TO GO INTO THE WORLD, TO BE FULLY ALIVE. BUT FOR ME, THE KEY TO THAT, THE DOORWAY TO THAT IS HAVING THE EXPERIENCE OF BEING UNCONDITIONALLY AND FULLY LOVED.ELIZABETH, YOUR DEFINITION. TO ME, SPIRITUALITY IS — IT’S AN INSTINCT. LIKE WE HAVE AN INSTINCT TO GO TO SLEEP, TO DRINK WATER, TO EAT — THERE’S THIS INSTINCT INSIDE OF EACH AND EVERY ONE OF US THAT THERE’S MORE TO LIFE THAN MEETS THE EYE. THERE’S SOMETHING GREATER OUT THERE THAN OUR DAILY GRIND. AND SPIRITUALITY IS THE FEARLESSNESS TO LOOK AT THAT SOMETHING ELSE. WHAT IS IT? IT’S THE FEARLESSNESS TO ASK THE BIG QUESTIONS — “WHO AM I? “WHAT’S MY PURPOSE IN LIFE? “WHERE DO WE GO WHEN WE DIE? “AND HOW DO WE LIVE A FULLY ALIVE, MEANINGFUL, GIVING, GENEROUS LIFE WHEN WE’RE HERE? ” OKAY, SO, EVERYBODY’S ASKED THAT QUESTION OF YOURSELF — “IS THIS ALL THERE IS? ” WELL, SPIRITUALITY ANSWERS THAT QUESTION.THAT’S RIGHT. YES. REVEREND BECKWITH? Michael: RIGHT. WHEN WE’RE CONNECTED TO THE LOVE, THE PEACE, THE HARMONY, THE WISDOM — THESE ARE ALL ETERNAL QUALITIES. THEY’RE NOT Temporary. THEY’RE NOT TEMPORARY. THEY’RE REAL, AND THEY’RE ETERNAL. AND SO, AN INDIVIDUAL IS CONNECTED TO THOSE QUALITIES AND BEGINS TO EXUDE THEM AND EXPRESS THEM. AT THAT MOMENT, THEY’RE IN THE SPIRIT, THEY’RE IN THAT SPIRITUAL REALM. AND WHEN AN INDIVIDUAL IS FEELING THAT CONNECTION OF LOVE AND PEACE AND HARMONY, THEY’RE FEELING THEIR REAL ESSENCE, THAT WHICH YOU TAKE WITH YOU WHEN YOU DIE. ALRIGHT, AND SO, TODAY, WHAT WE WANT TO DO — AND IF YOU ALL HAVE QUESTIONS, PLEASE, BECAUSE A LOT OF THIS IS VERY CONFUSING TO PEOPLE, BUT I’M TELLING YOU WHEN YOU UNDERSTAND THAT YOU ARE MORE THAN YOUR BODY, THAT YOU REALLY ARE THE SPIRIT IN THE BODY, IN A HUMAN BODY, THAT’S EXPERIENCING THIS LIFE AS A HUMAN BEING BUT THAT YOU REALLY ARE A SPIRITUAL ENTITY COME FROM WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT.I CALL IT GOD. A Bunch OF PEOPLE CALL IT SOURCE OR UNIVERSAL ENERGY. I CALL IT GOD. I THINK GOD DOESN’T GET HUNG UP ON THE TITLES. IT’S THE PEOPLE THAT GET HUNG UP ON THE TITLES. BUT WHEN YOU BEGIN TO REALIZE THAT YOU ARE MORE THAN YOUR BODY, THAT YOUR PURPOSE IS GREATER THAN YOUR PROFESSION OR YOUR CAREER, THAT EVERY LIFE — BECAUSE YOU WERE BORN, YOU HAVE A Freedom TO BE HERE AND THERE IS A CALLING ON YOUR LIFE, IT Wants YOU LIVE YOUR LIFE WITHOUT FEAR. AND YOU KNOW THAT NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS — NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS — YOU ARE GOING TO BE ALL RIGHT. YOU ARE Proceeding TO BE ALL RIGHT. THAT’S WHAT SPIRITUALITY IS FOR ME. AND I KNOW MANY OF YOU WATCHING HAVE BEEN AFFECTED BY THIS FINANCIAL CRISIS. FOR SOME, THAT HAS Too BROUGHT ON A SPIRITUAL CRISIS BECAUSE “WHO AM I WITHOUT MY HOUSE? “WITHOUT MY THINGS? WITH ALL THE STUFF THAT I Exploited TO DEFINE MYSELF? ” 49 -YEAR-OLD TANYA JOINS US FROM A FRIEND’S HOUSE IN NEW CUMBERLAND, PENNSYLVANIA. AND I HEAR, TANYA, YOUR BAKERY BUSINESS IS FAILING.Yes, Oprah. My husband and I gave all of our life savings into our business.[ VOICE BREAKING] And my business is failing right now. I’m sorry. And my family — my entire house depends on my success. And I don’t know where to turn. I don’t know what to do. I’m afraid. I have never been in this position in “peoples lives” before. I’ve always been the strong one. And I don’t know — how do you have hope when everything around you is falling apart? SO, WHAT IS IT YOU ARE MOST AFRAID OF? I thought it would be different, but it is just wholly out of sync as to what I thought it would be. I feel depressed. I feel lost. I feel futile. I feel like I’m letting my family down. Is this my destiny after all that I’ve contended for in being? You know, is this it for me? OKAY, SO THE QUESTION IS, ARE YOU NOT GONNA HAVE A PLACE TO LIVE, A PLACE TO LAY YOUR HEAD? WILL YOU NOT HAVE, YOU KNOW, FOOD? IS THAT WHAT WE’RE TALKING ABOUT? THE LOSING OF THE BAKERY MEANS YOU’RE GONNA BE HOMELESS?[ Chuckles] I could be.I have two grandchildren that I have to take care of, as well. I don’t have anything other than what I’ve invested, and that is everything — my home. You know, everything. My retirement, you know, my 401( k ), my husband’s — you know, everything we put out for this. THE FIRST THING I WOULD SAY IS THIS IDEA THAT “THIS ISN’T SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN TO ME. THIS WASN’T IN MY PLANS. THIS ISN’T WHAT I WANT.” WHETHER IT WAS Going SICK OR LOSING A BUSINESS OR JUST EVEN AGING, WE ARE BORN INTO THIS WORLD WHERE THE RULE IS CHANGE. EVERYTHING CHANGES AND EVERYTHING DIES AND NEW LIFE ONLY COMES WHEN THINGS CHANGE AND WHEN THINGS END. BUT US HUMANS — THAT IS THE RULE, BUT THAT ISN’T WHAT MOST PEOPLE ACCEPT. WE EXERT SO MUCH ENERGY SWIMMING AGAINST THAT CURRENT. THERE’S SO MUCH TENSION IN RESISTING WHAT’S HAPPENING THAT WE LOSE A LOT OF OUR POWER AND OUR INNER WISDOM TO GO FORWARD. YES. MICHAEL? SO, FIRST OF ALL, WHAT I WOULD SAY TO TANYA IS, YOU KNOW, FIRST OF ALL, STOP BLAMING YOURSELF FOR WHAT’S GOING ON IN YOUR LIFE AND TAKE A DEEP BREATH AND HAVE A LEVEL OF SELF-CARE AND COMPASSION FOR WHAT SHE’S GOING THROUGH.AND THEN, PERHAPS, BEGIN TO ASK THE QUESTION, YOU KNOW, AS SHE LOOKS THROUGH HER LIFE, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS IT THAT’S WORKING RIGHT NOW? WHAT IS IT THAT — YOU KNOW, SHE HAS THE LOVE OF HER FAMILY. SHE HAS — I SAW YOU ROLL YOUR EYES JUST THEN, SO LET’S LET YOU ANSWER THAT QUESTION, TANYA. It precisely — It seems like everything is just falling apart. OKAY, BUT WHAT IS WORKING? LET’S GO TO THE PLACE OF WHAT IS WORKING. LET’S START RIGHT HERE. YOU’RE BREATHING. YOU’RE BREATHING RIGHT NOW AND YOU DON’T NEED A MACHINE TO HELP YOU BREATHE. YOU KNOW, WHEN I USED TO GO TO THE CHURCH, OLD FOLKS USED TO SAY I WOKE UP CLOTHED IN MY RIGHT MIND.SO, YOU WOKE UP THIS MORNING CLOTHED IN YOUR RIGHT MIND. LET’S JUST START THERE, OKAY? WHEN YOU SAY, “I CAN’T. I DON’T HAVE ANYTHING.” FOR EVERYBODY WHO SAYS “I DON’T HAVE ANYTHING, ” START WITH YOUR BREATH. YOU’RE BREATHING, AND THERE’S NOT A MACHINE HELPING YOU BREATHE. AND IF YOU DO HAVE THE MACHINE, YOU GOT THE MACHINE TO HELP YOU BREATHE, SO YOU CAN START THERE. RIGHT? Michael: YEAH. LET’S Getting started. LET’S START WITH YOUR BREATH. WHEN YOU SAY, “I DON’T KNOW IF THERE’S ONE THING.” WELL, I’M BREATHING.THAT’S GOOD. THAT’S A GOOD START. TANYA: Yes. And I do understand that. AND I Believe WHAT’S IMPORTANT IS THAT IN CIRCUMSTANCES LIKE THIS, WE ARE BEING CALLED TO DEVELOP OR CULTIVATE QUALITIES WITHIN US THAT WE DIDN’T HAVE BEFORE. SO, A TOUGH TIME LIKE THIS IS AN INDICATION THAT OUR SOUL CAN ACTUALLY GIVE BIRTH TO QUALITIES, TALENTS, CAPACITIES THAT CAN’T COME FORWARD UNTIL SUCH A TIME AS THIS. NOW, THAT’S VERY DIFFICULT TO HEAR WHEN YOU’RE IN THIS TIME BECAUSE MOST PEOPLE — TANYA INCLUDED — THEY JUST WANT IT TO BE OVER. THEY Require THIS TO GO AWAY. “I DON’T WANT THIS BAD TIME. I DON’T WANT THIS CIRCUMSTANCE.” BUT OFTENTIMES, HIDDEN WITHIN THE CIRCUMSTANCE IS A GIFT OF THE UNFOLDMENT OF THE SOUL. OKAY, WE’LL COME BACK AND TALK TO TANYA AND TALK MORE ABOUT THIS IDEA OF “SUCH A TIME AS THIS” BECAUSE ONE OF THE THINGS THAT STRUCK ME BY WHAT YOU SAID, TANYA, IS THE SAME THING ELIZABETH PICKED UP ON. YOU SAID, “THIS ISN’T WHAT I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE.” AND WHEN YOU’RE — ANY TIME YOU’RE PUSHING AGAINST WHAT IS, WHEN YOU’RE RESISTING WHAT IS, YOU HAVE MORE STRESS IN YOUR LIFE BECAUSE YOU WON’T JUST ACCEPT WHAT IS.SO THAT’S PART OF WHAT SHE NEEDS TO DO IS TAKE A BREATH, LOOK AT WHAT IS INSTEAD OF WHAT SHE THOUGHT IT WAS GONNA BE. WE’LL BE RIGHT BACK TO CONTINUE THIS DISCUSSION.[ APPLAUSE] COMING UP … THE EMOTIONAL MOMENTS ON THIS SHOW THAT BECAME SOME OF THE MOST POWERFUL SPIRITUAL LESSONS OF ALL. NEXT. TODAY’S CLASS IS ONE OF MY FAVORITES. YOU’RE ON THE BRINK OF THE FINANCIAL CRISIS, IF YOU FEEL LOST AND DISCONNECTED, IF YOU CAN’T REMEMBER THE LAST TIME YOU TRULY FELT HAPPY, CONNECTED, ALIVE, TAKE THIS HOUR AND BEGIN TO GET — LET IT BE THE CATALYST FOR YOU TO BEGIN TO GET YOUR LIFE BACK. HERE TO HELP US DO THAT ARE SOME OF THE BEST SPIRITUAL TEACHERS I KNOW — REVEREND MICHAEL BECKWITH, ELIZABETH LESSER, AND REVEREND ED BACON. WE’RE Holler IT SPIRITUALITY 101. AND WE WERE JUST TALKING TO TANYA, WHO IS LOSING HER BAKERY. AND ALONG WITH THOSE FEELINGS OF LOSS, SHE FEELS LIKE HER ENTIRE LIFE IS FALLING APART. AND YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT “SUCH A TIME AS THIS” AND HOW WE USE DIFFICULT TIMES.I ALWAYS THINK EVERYTHING IS HAPPENING IN YOUR LIFE — NO MATTER HOW DIFFICULT THE CRISIS — TO TEACH YOU MORE ABOUT WHO YOU ARE, TO GROW YOU INTO WHO YOU WERE REALLY MEANT TO BE. Michael: ABSOLUTELY. THAT’S WHAT’S HAPPENING. YOU SEE IT AS A BIG, HUGE LIFE LESSON, THEN, AND NOT AS A PUNISHMENT — CHANGES YOU. WHAT I WOULD ASK HER TO DO, TOO, IS TO BLESS THE CLIENTS THAT SHE STILL HAS IN THE BAKERY, TO ACTUALLY GIVE THANKS FOR THE PEOPLE THAT ARE STILL BUYING FROM HER SO WE CAN MULTIPLY THAT. AND I WOULD Likewise INVITE YOU TO ASK, YOU KNOW, IF THIS SITUATION WERE TO LAST FOR AN EXTREMELY LONG PERIOD OF TIME, WHAT QUALITY WOULD YOU HAVE TO BIRTH TO HAVE PEACE OF MIND? AND IF YOU ASK THAT QUESTION, YOU’LL BEGIN TO BIRTH WHO AND WHAT YOU REALLY ARE OUT OF THIS TOUGH SITUATION.AND NOT ONLY THAT. ASKING THAT QUESTION WILL PUT HER IN THE SPACE OF “WHAT DO I NEED TO DO NOW? WHAT DO I NEED TO DO? ” RIGHT? INSTEAD OF RESISTING WHAT IS. WISDOM AND GUIDANCE WILL COME IN A LANGUAGE AND IN A WAY THAT SHE CAN UNDERSTAND WHEN SHE’S RECEPTIVE. REVEREND ED. Ed: CRISIS MEANS CROSSROADS. AND IN EVERY CRISIS, THERE IS THE Result OF A WORLD AS WE’VE KNOWN IT.LIKE R.E.M. SINGS, “IT’S THE END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT, AND I FEEL FINE.” AND THE REASON WE CAN FEEL FINE IS BECAUSE THIS IS A THRESHOLD FOR SOMETHING MUCH BIGGER IN YOUR LIFE THAN YOU EVER IMAGINED. YEAH. SOMETHING’S BEING BORN IN YOU, MY FRIEND, AND IT IS WONDERFUL. LET THE OLD DIE’ CAUSE THE NEW IS GONNA BE EVEN BETTER THAN YOU EVER COULD HAVE IMAGINED.I PROMISE YOU. THANK YOU FOR THAT, TANYA. THANK YOU FOR THAT.[ APPLAUSE] AS A Question of fact, ALL SPIRITUAL GROWTH IS REALLY ABOUT LETTING GO OF SOMETHING. IT’S NOT ABOUT GAINING ANYTHING. AS THE MASTER SAID, “WHO, BY TAKING THOUGHT, CAN ADD ONE CUBIT TO OUR STATURE? ” WE CAN’T ADD ANYTHING TO US. BUT SPIRITUALITY IS ABOUT LETTING GO OF THE FALSE CONCEPTS, THE FALSE WAYS THAT WE’VE IDENTIFIED OURSELVES, FALSE IDENTITIES, FALSE HABITS, MISCONSTRUED IDEAS. SO, WHEN WE’RE IN THE MIDST OF A CRISIS, WE’RE BEING ASKED TO LET GO OF SOMETHING SO THAT, AS ED IS SAYING AND WE’RE ALL SAYING, SOMETHING NEW CAN BE BORN. OKAY. WELL, ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL SPIRITUAL BELIEFS I HAVE IS THIS THAT EVERYTHING YOU NEED, YOU ALREADY HAVE.NO MATTER WHAT’S GOING ON IN YOUR LIFE, BELIEVING THAT WILL HELP YOU REALIZE YOUR TRUE POTENTIAL. THIS Time, IT’S ALWAYS GOING TO BE OKAY IS WHAT I KNOW — NO MATTER WHAT. SO, WE MET OUR NEXT SPIRITUAL TEACHER LAST FALL, AND WHAT A LESSON SHE GAVE US. MONICA JORGE TAUGHT US ALL ABOUT THE VIRTUE OF COURAGE, LISTEN TO THIS. THREE Daylights AFTER A SCHEDULED C-SECTION, HER BODY WAS ATTACKED BY A FLESH-EATING BACTERIA. AND TO Saved her, DOCTORS HAD TO AMPUTATE HER ARMS AND HER LEGS. SO, SHE GOES IN THE HOSPITAL TO HAVE A BABY WITH A C-SECTION, AND COMES OUT WITH NO ARMS AND NO LEGS. AND HERE’S JENNY McCARTHY INTERVIEWING HER. Monica: I KNEW IT WAS COMING, AND I Demanded IT DONE.WHEN THEY TOLD ME THEY WERE DOING IT, I SAID “OKAY, ” YOU KNOW? “DO IT. “JUST GET IT DONE SO I CAN DO WHAT I NEED TO DO SO I CAN GO HOME.” AND BE A MOM. EXACTLY. Oprah: Wet-nurses AND DOCTORS ANTICIPATED THE INEVITABLE “WHY ME? ” BREAKDOWN, BUT IT Never CAME. INSTEAD, MONICA FOCUSED ON REHABILITATION SO SHE COULD GET HOME TO HER DAUGHTERS AND HER HUSBAND. Jenny: EVERYONE HAS BAD THINGS THAT HAPPEN IN THEIR LIFE, AND IT Actually IS A MATTER OF … TAKING AND CHOOSING THE RIGHT ROAD. YES, WE ALL WANT TO LIVE FOR OUR CHILDREN, BUT DO YOU WANT TO BE HAPPY AND BE A GOOD EXAMPLE FOR YOUR CHILDREN? Monica: THAT’S THE MAIN THING.IT’S WHAT GOOD ARE YOU TO YOUR CHILDREN IF YOU’RE MISERABLE? WHAT ARE YOU TEACHING THEM THAT WE GIVE UP? I Demand MY GIRLS TO KNOW THAT THEIR MOTHER’S A FIGHTER. DON’T EVER GIVE UP ON ANYTHING — EVER. ISN’T THAT POWERFUL?[ APPLAUSE][ SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY] THAT WAS ONE OF MY BEST LESSONS THIS YEAR. Michael: POWERFUL. ONE OF MY BEST LESSONS THIS YEAR THAT CAME IN THE FORM OF MONICA JORGE. ALL RIGHT. WE’LL BE RIGHT BACK. WE’LL COME BACK IN A MOMENT.[ APPLAUSE] NEXT … MOMS, LISTEN UP. YOU’VE LOST YOURSELF BECAUSE YOU THINK THAT’S ALL THAT YOU ARE. MORE OF OUR “BEST LIFE” SPIRITUALITY CLASS. NEXT. WELL, 41 -YEAR-OLD CAROLINE IS A STAY-AT-HOME MOM FROM CALIFORNIA, AND SHE’S JOINING US FROM HER MOTHER-IN-LAW’S DEN IN PACIFIC GROVE, CALIFORNIA. CAROLINE, YOUR QUESTION IS? HI. CAROLINE: Hi. 12 years ago, I decided to give up my vocation and stay home with my babies, and I feel very blessed to do that.But there are times when I’m doing laundry and chauffeuring them around that I don’t always feel increased. And what I recognise after predict the Eckhart Tolle book that I am marking with being a mother. That was a big “aha” moment for me. And I would like to find a way to create a larger space between recognizing when I’m in ego and identifying with the role played by being a mother so that I can be in the present moment and find the quietnes and the happiness that I would like to be able to obtain while I’m doing laundry or “ve had to” clean the shower And that type of stuff. OKAY. YOU KNOW, SHE’S ASKING — YOU’RE ASKING THE QUESTION HOW CAN YOU FIND THAT PART OF YOU THAT’S NOT IDENTIFYING WITH BEING A MOTHER, WIFE, ET CETERA.AND IT’S VERY IMPORTANT, AND IT HAD A Lot TO DO WITH MOTIVATION. OFTENTIMES, YOU’LL DO THINGS FOR OTHERS, AND SOMETIMES, THAT CAN LEAD TO MARTYRDOM. OR YOU DO THINGS TO SHOW OTHERS YOU CAN DO IT, AND THAT LEADS TO A LEVEL OF SEPARATION. OR SOMETIMES, YOU DO IT FOR YOURSELF, WHICH AMPLIFIES THE EGO. SO, THE IDEA IS TO HAVE THE MOTIVATION WHERE YOU’RE DOING IT FOR THE SACRED, YOU’RE DOING IT FOR THE DIVINE, YOU’RE DOING IT FOR YOUR OWN GROWTH, EVEN IF IT’S SOMETHING AS MUNDANE AS THE LAUNDRY. Elizabeth: AND A WONDERFUL THING HAPPENS WHEN YOU SHOW UP FULLY, 100% WITH YOUR KIDS OR WITH YOUR HUSBAND OR WITH THE LAUNDRY. YOU Actually MOVE THROUGH THE TASKS A LOT QUICKER BECAUSE THERE’S NOT ALL THAT AUXILIARY TENSION BETWEEN PEOPLE WHEN YOU’RE IN THE MOMENT. AND I GET THE FEELING, GIVEN HOW OLD IT SOUNDS LIKE YOUR KIDS ARE, WHEN YOU SHOW UP 100% WITH THEM AT HOME OR DRIVING THEM AROUND, SUDDENLY A BIG SPACE MIGHT OPEN IN YOUR LIFE.I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT FOR YOU, CAROLINE, AND FOR EVERY OTHER WOMAN OUT THERE WHO HAS MADE THE CHOICE TO BE AT HOME AND TAKE CARE OF YOUR KIDS AND YOU CAN AFFORD TO DO THAT, THAT THAT REALLY IS GOD’S HOLIEST WORK. THAT IS THE SACRED, At work, EVERY DAY. THERE IS NO MORE –[ APPLAUSE] A HIGHER CALLING THAN RAISING CHILDREN WHO ARE KIND, WHO LIVE WITH GRACE, AND ARE GONNA BE GENEROUS HUMAN BEINGS IN THE WORLD. THERE ISN’T ANYTHING GREATER THAN THAT. BUT I DO WANT TO ADD SOMETHING IN AS SOMEONE WHO WAS A MOM AND STAYED AT HOME AND THEN ALSO WORKED.IF YOU ARE NOT FULFILLED, IF YOU ARE NOT FEELING FULFILLED ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE BOTTOM OF YOUR SOUL, YOU ULTIMATELY DON’T HAVE AS MUCH TO GIVE YOUR KIDS. SO, THERE IS A GOOD BALANCING ACT THAT YOU CAN ASK YOURSELF, “ARE YOU READY TO DO THAT? ” YEAH. That’s — You really nailed it right on the ability because I’ve been experiencing that.My husband makes full period, and he’s going to law school. So, he’s very busy, and we fixed the decision to do this as a family. And I’m supporting him, but at the same time, there’s an integrated part of me that feels like it’s my turn. I want to do something. I’ve done enough, I feel, soul-searching and speak some of these works that part of my problem was identifying with that role and not even realizing until I kind of looked at it and get that seat between my thoughts and thinking, “Wow, ” you know? “I’m identified as a mother.” I know that a lot of parties plan on being home, but that wasn’t my number-one aim. LET ME JUST INTERRUPT YOU HERE, CAROLINE, BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVEN’T READ ECKHART TOLLE’S BOOK “A NEW EARTH, ” WHICH IS ANOTHER REALLY GREAT SPIRITUAL TEACHING. SO, THEY WILL HEAR YOU SAYING “I’M IDENTIFIED WITH BEING A MOTHER” AND SAY, “WELL, WHAT’S WRONG WITH BEING IDENTIFIED AS BEING A MOTHER? ” THERE’S NOTHING WRONG WITH BEING IDENTIFIED AS A MOTHER.WHAT YOU’RE SAYING IS IF THAT’S THE ONLY WAY YOU SEE YOURSELF. Exactly. Exactly. IF THAT’S YOUR COMPLETE AND TOTAL IDENTITY IS ONLY AS BEING A MOTHER, THEN YOU START TO LOSE YOURSELF. AND I KNOW THAT THERE ARE MILLIONS OF YOU WHO ARE LISTENING TO US RIGHT NOW WHO IDENTIFY WITH WHAT CAROLINE’S SAYING. YOU’VE LOST YOURSELF BECAUSE YOU THINK THAT’S ALL THAT YOU ARE. AND IT’S NOT Precisely MOTHERHOOD PEOPLE IDENTIFY.IT’S ANY JOB, IT’S ANY ROLE. RIGHT. Ed: OR IN YOUR RELATIONSHIPS. AND EVERYBODY HAS A TRUE SELF, AND THAT’S HOW IT STARTS TO FEEL. YOU START TO FEEL ITCHY. YOU START TO FEEL IRRITATED, THAT DISCONTENT, LIKE SOMETHING ELSE. HAVEN’T YOU ALL FELT THAT? YOU KNOW, YOU’RE AT A JOB AND YOU KNOW THAT YOU REALLY SHOULD BE DOING MORE. IT DOESN’T FULFILL YOU. AND THAT’S WHY YOU’RE REALLY HERE. BEING A MOTHER, OBVIOUSLY, WAS A PART OF THE CALLING, BUT WHY YOU’RE REALLY HERE IS TO FULFILL THAT THING THAT YOU’RE NOW FEELING. Absolutely. Expressed appreciation for, CAROLINE. WE’LL BE RIGHT BACK. YOU’RE ON THE WAY. YOU’RE ON THE WAY TO THAT.[ APPLAUSE] Come through here … I’VE NEVER HEARD THAT BEFORE. I Simply HAD AN “AHA.” OVER THE YEARS, I’VE HAD MANY, MANY, MANY “AHA” MOMENTS ON THE SHOW.TWO YEARS AGO, JOHN DIAZ WAS HERE TALKING ABOUT SURVIVING A HORRIFIC PLANE CRASH, OKAY? “SUCH A TIME AS THIS” IS WHAT HE HAD. AND WHAT HE SAID THAT DAY IS SOMETHING THAT I KNOW SO MANY OF YOU WHO HEARD IT WILL NEVER FORGET. WATCH THIS. THE BACK END OF THE PLANE BROKE OFF IN THE EXPLOSION, AND A Batch OF PEOPLE BACK THERE SURVIVED’ CAUSE THEY DIDN’T HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE FIRE. THE FIRE IS WHAT KILLED EVERYBODY IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PLANE.AND I DON’T FLY ANYMORE IN THE MIDDLE OF A PLANE. DO YOU THINK THAT’S WHAT SAVED YOU? OH, THE POSITION OF WHERE I WAS, YEAH. THAT’S WHAT SAVED ME. SO, YOU DON’T Guess IT WAS DIVINE OR NOT DIVINE, OR …? NO, I DON’T BELIEVE IT WAS DIVINE. I DID SEE, AS I GOT KNOCKED BACK INTO THE PLANE, IT Seemed LIKE A DANTE’S INFERNO WITH PEOPLE STRAPPED IN TO THEIR SEATS AND JUST BURNING.AND IT SEEMED THAT IT LOOKED LIKE AN AURA WAS LEAVING THEIR BODIES, AND SOME BRIGHTER THAN OTHERS. Genuinely? AND IT Modified — IT GAVE ME KIND OF A NEW SPIRITUALITY IN THE SENSE THAT I Accept LIFE CONTINUES ON. AND I THOUGHT THE BRIGHTNESS AND DIMNESS OF THE AURAS WERE HOW ONE LIVES ONE’S LIFE, SO TO SPEAK. SO, THAT’S ONE OF THE MAJOR THINGS THAT REALLY HAS CHANGED WITH ME SINCE THEN IS I WANT TO LIVE MY LIFE SO MY AURA, WHEN IT LEAVES, IS VERY BRIGHT. Michael: POWERFUL. Ed: HMM. THAT’S NOW ONE OF MY FAVORITE SPIRITUAL MOMENTS WHEN HE TALKED ABOUT TURNING BACK AND LOOKING AT THE PLANE AND HE COULD SEE THE AURAS LEAVING.IT’S SO TRUE, THOUGH. “AND SOME WERE BRIGHTER THAN OTHERS, AND I Demand TO LIVE SO THAT MINE IS BRIGHT.” ISN’T THAT POWERFUL? IT’S SO TRUE. I Conclude THAT AS WE LEAVE THE BODY TEMPLE AND MOVE INTO THE NEXT DIMENSION, THE CLOTHES WE WEAR ARE THE THOUGHTS AND THE INTENTIONS AND THE ACTIONS THAT WE HAD IN THIS DIMENSION. THAT IS EXACTLY — THOSE COLORS AND THOSE INTENTIONS, THEY BECOME OUR CLOTHES. SO THAT’S WHAT HE WAS SEEING.WOW. IT’S THE DIVINE PRESENCE. I’VE NEVER “ve heard that before”. I Time HAD AN “AHA.” 25 -YEAR-OLD NIKKI RECENTLY FOUND OUT THAT HER MOTHER MAY BE DYING OF CANCER. NIKKI JOINS US FROM THE HIGH SCHOOL WHERE SHE TEACHES 9th AND 10 th GRADERS IN CORNING, NEW YORK. NIKKI, I HEAR YOUR MOTHER’S ILLNESS HAS MADE YOU ANGRY. It truly has. I would say that I have probably the most wonderful mother. And only with what’s going on with her, it’s made me furious with God. I represent, if there’s a God, why would they present such a wonderful person this kind of disease? And why would they applied my little siblings — I have a 9-year-old sister, a 12 -year-old brother, and a 21 -year-old brother in college — and why would God want to put these two little kids through something like this at such a young age? It’s really made me question God’s choices.WHAT’S SO IMPORTANT TO KNOW IS THAT GOD DOESN’T GIVE DISEASES. Ailments ARE SO Mysterious. GOD SIMPLY DOESN’T GIVE THEM TO US. IT IS VERY APPROPRIATE FOR YOU TO BE ANGRY. AND UNDERNEATH THE ANGER IS A LOT OF GRIEF. AND I Suppose IT’S REALLY IMPORTANT TO LET YOURSELF FEEL THAT GRIEF AND TO LET A NOTION OF GOD WHO GIVES DISEASES DIE BECAUSE THAT’S NOT THE REAL LIVING, LOVING GOD. AND THEN TO THANK GOD FOR YOUR MOTHER. AH, AT EVERY TURN, WHAT A GIFT GOD HAS GIVEN YOU IN YOUR MOTHER, AND TO ASK HER HOW SHE FEELS ABOUT ALL OF THIS.IT SOUNDS LIKE SHE’S QUITE A MENTOR FOR YOU, A LOVING A MENTOR, AND CAN TEACH YOU A LOT ABOUT THIS. MICHAEL. Michael: ABSOLUTELY. GOD IS A FULL EXPRESSION OF ALL OF THESE WONDERFUL QUALITIES THAT WE’VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT. AND Allow me to say ONE OTHER THING. YOU’RE ALREADY LIVING IN THE FUTURE, AS IF YOUR MOTHER HAS ALREADY PASSED ON. AND YOU HAVE ALL OF THIS RICH TIME FOR INTIMACY AND FOR LOVE AND FOR CARING AND SHARING AND COMPASSION. DON’T WASTE THE TIME PROJECTING WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN TO HER. BE WITH HER NOW. BE WITH YOURSELF. BE WITH YOUR SIBLINGS. YEAH, BECAUSE ISN’T THAT A WASTE OF HER ENERGY? I MEAN, WHEN SHE FIRST SAID THAT, I Only THOUGHT, “OH, GEE, WHAT A WASTE OF THE ENERGY WHEN YOU REALLY COULD BE TURNING THIS ENERGY — THAT ENERGY THAT YOU’RE SPENDING ON BEING ANGRY COULD BE TURNED INTO A LOVE FORCE.” YEAH, I Belief THAT’S WHY REVEREND ED SUGGESTED THAT YOU DON’T BEAT YOURSELF UP FOR FEELING ANGRY AND SAD.LET YOURSELF GRIEVE. GRIEF IS LIKE A HEALING BALM. LET YOURSELF CRY. CRY IN FRONT OF YOUR BROTHERS AND YOUR SISTER. LET THEM SEE YOU A MODEL AS SOMEONE WHO JUST LETS EXPERIENCE FLOW THROUGH YOU. YOU KNOW, THERE’S Good-for-nothing WORSE WHEN YOU’RE A CHILD AND YOU HOLD AN EXPERIENCE IN. THEN WHEN YOU’RE AN ADULT YEARS LATER, YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR IT IN ILLNESS OR BAD RELATIONSHIPS. SO MODEL TO YOUR SIBLINGS WHAT IT MEANS TO LOVE. AND SOMETIMES, THE GREATEST BADGE OF LOVE IS GRIEF, TO JUST SHOW HOW GRIEF-STRICKEN YOU ARE AT THE POSSIBILITY OF LOSING YOUR MOTHER. WHAT YOU’RE GONNA DO FOR THOSE SIBLINGS THROUGH MODELING GOING THROUGH THIS AND THEN THROUGH BEING THERE FOR THEM IS AN AWESOME TASK, AND I HONOR YOU IN THAT. Thank you. THANK YOU, NIKKI. I merely want to say that I think what you’re saying makes a lot of sense. It’s just hard for me to — I have been trying to model this strong behavior for them, you know? Trusting that she’s going to be okay, or offsetting them at least suppose I feel that way, when genuinely inside I’m scared. And definitely that fright is something large-hearted that I know is inside me, that I need to let it out. I Consider BY YOU SHOWING THEM THAT A STRONG PERSON CRIES AND FEELS, THAT IS A REAL — A SPIRITUAL WARRIOR IS SOMEONE WHO FEELS LIFE DEEPLY, WHO IS A SENSITIVE PERSON BUT STILL WHO KNOWS HOW TO GO THROUGH LIFE. SO, LET THEM KNOW ABOUT YOUR FEAR, TALK TO THEM, LET THEM TELL YOU ABOUT THEIR FEARS. Michael: ABSOLUTELY.AND IT’S NOT THAT YOU’RE SAYING THAT YOUR MOTHER’S GONNA BE OKAY. YOU’RE SAYING THAT IT’S GONNA BE OKAY, THAT REGARDLESS OF WHAT HAPPENS, “WE’RE GONNA MAKE IT. WE’RE Going to be all right. “WE’RE GONNA FIND SOMETHING WITHIN US THAT’S BIGGER THAN THIS CIRCUMSTANCE AND SITUATION, AND WE’RE GONNA LET THAT TAKE OVER.” Oprah: THANK YOU. THANKS, NIKKI. WE’LL Be coming back. YOU TURN THAT ANGER INTO …[ APPLAUSE] SHE SURVIVED AN UNIMAGINABLE HORROR. WHAT SHE TAUGHT ME ABOUT TRUE BEAUTY. NEXT.[ APPLAUSE] WE’RE TALKING ABOUT SPIRITUALITY AND HOW SPIRITUALITY, BEING SPIRITUAL WORKS IN YOUR EVERYDAY LIFE. IT’S OUR “BEST LIFE” CLASS ON SPIRITUALITY. AND AS I SAID AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS SHOW, SPIRITUAL TEACHERS COME IN ALL FORMS. OUR NEXT TEACHER, FOR ME, IS A LIVING Clarity OF WHAT TRUE BEAUTY MEANS. AND, YOU KNOW, THIS WAS SUCH A POWERFUL LESSON FOR ME BECAUSE FOR YEARS ON THIS SHOW WE’VE DONE MAKEOVERS, AND IN MY MAGAZINE, WE TALK ABOUT BEAUTY IS FROM WITHIN AND NOW WITH OUT. AND IT’S A REAL EASY THING FOR ALL OF US TO SAY. I MEAN, EVERYBODY’S SAID IT. “OH, BEAUTY’S IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER, BEAUTY STARTS WITHIN.” AND THIS PERSON, JACQUI SABURIDO, WAS A LIVING, BREATHING EXAMPLE OF SOMEBODY WHO WAS SO HIGHLY SPIRITUALLY EVOLVED THAT SHE DIDN’T HAVE TO TALK THAT. SHE WAS WALKING THIS WALK. WHY? BECAUSE IN ONE NIGHT, JACQUI WENT FROM LOOKING LIKE THIS……HIT BY A DRUNK DRIVER … AND LOOKING LIKE THIS. SHE Endured WITH NEARLY 60% OF HER BODY BURNED. SHE WENT ON TO ENDURE 40 DIFFERENT OPERATIONS. AND HERE IS AN AWE-INSPIRING MOMENT FROM MY CONVERSATION WITH JACQUI, A REAL SPIRITUAL TEACHER. JACQUI SAYS IN HER DREAM THAT YOU ARE WHOLE AND BEAUTIFUL. WOW. YES, WHEN WE HAD SOME DREAMS, I Be borne in mind that I HAD AN ACCIDENT, YOU KNOW? I STILL BEAUTIFUL LIKE BEFORE. SO, WE WERE LOOKING AT YOUR PHOTOGRAPH HERE ON THE SCREEN. DO YOU FEEL LIKE YOU’RE STILL THAT PERSON ON THE SCREEN? YES. YES, I FEEL — OF COURSE, NOT PHYSICALLY. BUT INSIDE, I FEEL THE SAME PERSON. I KNOW THAT YOU SAY EVERY DAY OF YOUR LIFE IS A FIGHT, YOU KNOW? YES. ALL OF US WAKE UP, WE COMPLAIN ABOUT EVERYTHING GOING ON IN OUR LIFE. BUT FOR YOU, EVERY DAY, JUST TO GET UP AND GET DRESSED IS A FIGHT. YEAH, IT IS A Battle BECAUSE IT’S — IT’S SO DIFFICULT SOMETIMES, YOU KNOW? ARE YOU GLAD THAT YOU LIVED? YES, I’M GLAD. YOU’RE GLAD THAT YOU LIVED.YEAH, I’M GLAD. BECAUSE I WANT TO LIVE A LOT OF THINGS THAT I DIDN’T. I HAVE, YOU KNOW, TIME TO DO IT, YOU KNOW? WELL, JACQUI SAYS SHE Admits HERSELF TO CRY FOR ONLY ABOUT FIVE MINUTES A DAY. MM-HMM. RIGHT.[ CHUCKLES] YOU LET YOURSELF FEEL SORRY FOR YOURSELF FIVE MINUTES A DAY. REALLY, IT WAS, LIKE, MY COUSIN’S IDEA. SHE SAID, “YOU ONLY WILL HAVE FIVE A MINUTES A DAY TO CRY.” AND THEN I TELL HER,[ Crying] “OH, YEAH, I KNOW. BECAUSE, YOU KNOW –” “OKAY, THAT’S IT. FIVE Hours FINISHED.”[ LAUGHTER][ APPLAUSE] ISN’T THAT POWERFUL?’ CAUSE I THINK IF SHE CAN FEEL LIKE SHE HAS SO MUCH MORE TO DO WITH HER LIFE, THEN EACH OF US CAN FIND OUR OWN PATH.[ APPLAUSE] Ed: SHE IS BEAUTIFUL. YEAH. SHE IS BEAUTIFUL. IT’S THE REAL DEFINITION OF BEAUTY. THE EMANATION OF HER SOUL, EMANATION OF THE PRESENCE, THE EMANATION OF LIVING LIFE AS AN ADVENTURE.YOU KNOW, HER FIGHTING EVERY SINGLE DAY TO LIVE LIFE, THAT’S VERY POWERFUL. YES. JUST TO GET UP AND GET DRESSED BECAUSE SHE’S BURNED AND HER Paws ARE GNARLED AND ALL THAT. TAKING NOTHING FOR GRANTED. YOU CAN View HER AURA. AH. THAT’S A STRONG AURA. THAT IS A STRONG, BEAUTIFUL AURA. WE’LL Be coming back.[ APPLAUSE] SEDRICK IS JOINING US FROM HIS FRIEND’S HOUSE IN DECATUR, GEORGIA. HI, SEDRICK. Hi, Oprah. How are you? I’M GOOD. WHAT’S YOUR QUESTION FOR OUR SPIRITUAL PANEL? I’m a 33 -year-old guy. I grown up in a rural part of Alabama. And I happen to be lesbian. And my upbringing earlier in this report in living was a little bit tough in matters relating to my sexuality.And about 17, I started this destructive pattern of increasing a lot of debt and not paying the proposals off. It’s not that I couldn’t pay the bills at the time, but for some reason, I simply didn’t pay them. And it’s almost like, to me, an addiction to the debt. And my question is, how do you guys suggest approaching discontinue this vicious cycle? I’m at a position in “peoples lives” now where I want to settle down and accumulate some things for later in life, and I don’t know how to stop it, basically. Elizabeth: OH, WOW. YOU KNOW, WE’VE BEEN TALKING TODAY A LOT ABOUT THIS DESIRE EVERYONE HAS TO FEEL FULLY ALIVE. AND SOMETIMES WHEN OUR LIFE — PERHAPS YOU FELT, GROWING UP WHEN YOU WERE YOUNG, YOU HAD TO HIDE WHO YOU WERE BECAUSE YOU WERE GAY, THEN YOU BEGIN TO LOOK FOR THAT FEELING IN ALIVENESS AND THRILL IN ALL THE WRONG PLACES. INSTEAD OF JUST BEING GENUINELY WHO YOU ARE IN THE WORLD — WHICH IS THE BIGGEST THRILL THERE IS, ACTUALLY — YOU START TO DO THINGS THAT, YOU KNOW — JUMPING OUT OF PLANES OR BEING IN DEBT BECAUSE THAT’S SORT OF, IN A TWISTED KIND OF WAY, MAKING YOU FEEL REALLY ALIVE, THAT SENSE OF, YOU KNOW, “AM I GONNA MAKE IT? ” DO YOU EVER FEEL THAT WAY? THAT SENSE OF …? Actually, I’ve been grappling with that all my life.You pretty much just summed up what I’ve been feeling since I was 12 year olds, on the inside. But I’ve surmounted being one person on the outside, and it’s completely opposite of who I am truly in here. AND THAT’S WHY THIS SHOW IS CALLED LIVE YOUR BEST LIFE NOT WHAT THE WHOLE WORLD THINKS YOUR BEST LIFE WOULD LOOK LIKE I’M GONNA LET THE OTHER TWO ANSWER THIS.’ CAUSE THAT’S A REAL COURAGE YOU NEED IN LIFE. I MEAN, EVERYBODY SPEAKS ABOUT COURAGE, AND I Remember THAT THE ONLY COURAGE YOU REALLY NEED IS THE COURAGE TO LIVE THE LIFE OF YOUR DREAMS, THE COURAGE TO LIVE THE LIFE THAT YOU WERE BORN TO.AND YOU CANNOT DO THAT AS LONG AS YOU’RE LYING TO YOURSELF ABOUT ANYTHING. Michael: ABSOLUTELY. IT APPEARS AS THOUGH YOUR MANTRA HAS BEEN “I HAVE DRAMA, THEREFORE I AM.” SO, THE ADDICTION TO THE — REALLY GOOD. THE ADDICTION TO THE DRAMA OF NOT PAYING THE BILLS, YOU’VE USED THAT AS A LEVEL OF EXCITEMENT. YOU’RE Laughter BECAUSE YOU RECOGNIZE THAT, RIGHT?[ CHUCKLES] YEAH. “I HAVE DRAMA, THEREFORE I AM” INSTEAD OF, “I AM, THEREFORE I Remember, THEREFORE I CAN LIVE THIS LIFE AS AN ADVENTURE.” AND IT APPEARS AS THOUGH YOU’VE INTERNALIZED A LACK OF SELF-APPRECIATION. YOU NEED TO NOW MOVE INTO SELF-FORGIVENESS, LEARN — SERVE AN APPRENTICESHIP TO SELF-APPRECIATION. AND THEN REGARDING WHAT YOU WANT TO DO IN LIFE, WHAT I WOULD SUGGEST IS THAT YOU WRITE DOWN WHAT YOU WANT TO DO IN YOUR LIFE. WRITE DOWN SOME REAL MEANINGFUL GOALS.AND CAN I INTERRUPT JUST THIS ONE SECOND? FORGIVE YOURSELF BECAUSE OF WHAT MAYA ANGELOU ALWAYS SAYS. “WHEN YOU KNOW BETTER, YOU DO BETTER.” AND 33′ s A GREAT TIME TO COME ALIVE, YOU KNOW? Ed: IT Actually IS. Utterly. DEFINING. ABSOLUTELY. WHAT I Crave TO ADD IS THE ISSUE OF ISOLATION. YOU CAN’T DO THIS ALONE. NONE OF US CAN MAKE A LIST AND THEN ACCOMPLISH IT ALONE. YOU CANNOT BE A HUMAN BEING ALONE. I CANNOT BE A HUMAN BEING ALONE. I CANNOT CHANGE MY LIFE ALONE. AND THE TROUBLING PART OF OUR CULTURE, WHICH IS LARGELY ANTI-GAY — BEING GAY IS A GIFT FROM GOD, BUT OUR CULTURE DOESN’T UNDERSTAND THAT.AND CONSEQUENTLY, THE CULTURE SENDS MESSAGES THAT YOU OUGHT TO ISOLATE. AND ISOLATION IS THE ANTITHESIS OF WHAT ALL OF US NEED. WE NEED COMMUNITY. WE SIMPLY CAN’T DO SPIRITUALITY, WE CAN’T BE OUR BEST SELF, WE CAN’T BE FULLY ALIVE WITHOUT A COMMUNITY. WELL, YOU ARE THE FIRST MINISTER I EVER HEARD SAY BEING GAY IS A GIFT FROM GOD. I CAN TELL YOU THAT. WELL, NOW YOU’LL HEAR TWO. NOW YOU’LL HEAR TWO.[ LAUGHTER][ APPLAUSE] NOW YOU HEAR TWO. AND THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH — YOU ARE THE FIRST TWO MINISTERS I EVER HEARD SAY BEING GAY IS A GIFT FROM GOD. WELL, OF COURSE IT IS. Utterly. FIRST OF ALL, WE’RE NOT TALKING RELIGION HERE. WE’RE TALKING Spirituality. AND SEDRICK DIDN’T JUST HAPPEN TO BE GAY. RIGHT. YOU KNOW? PEOPLE DON’T JUST HAPPEN TO BE GAY. YOU KNOW, WHEN PEOPLE ARE BORN, THEY HAVE THAT TYPE OF ORIENTATION. SO, HE IS GAY BY DIVINE RIGHT, AND SO WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT. SO, HE HAS Knacks AND TALENTS AND CAPACITIES THAT HE’S SUPPOSED TO DELIVER TO THIS PARTICULAR SOCIETY.NOW, THERE ARE CERTAIN RELIGIONS THAT WOULD FROWN ON THAT AND MAKE IT SOME KIND OF WRATH FROM GOD OR THIS TYPE OF THING, BUT SPIRITUALITY IS INDICATING THAT HE’S THE IMAGE AND LIKENESS OF GOD JUST AS HE IS. YES. YES. SO, DO YOU BELIEVE THAT, SEDRICK? DO YOU BELIEVE THAT? Well, frankly, prior to the show today, I hadn’t really grasped it. But since watching most of the guests on here today and listening to what you guys have to say, I meditate I’m gonna leave here with a refreshed see. So, I’m getting it.[ APPLAUSE] THANK YOU SO MUCH, SEDRICK. WE’LL BE RIGHT BACK. WE’LL Be coming back. Come through here … I CALL HIM MY GUY. THE GREATEST SPIRITUAL LESSONS FROM AN 11 -YEAR-OLD BOY. OKAY. WE’RE STILL DEALING WITH “BEING GAY IS A GIFT.” IT’S A GIFT. NOT Time BORN GAY, IT’S A GIFT. AS I SAID, SPIRITUAL TEACHERS SHOW UP IN MANY DIFFERENT SIZES, SHAPES, RACES, AND AGES ON THIS SHOW. AND I DON’T KNOW ANYONE WHO EXEMPLIFIED TRUE WISDOM MORE THAN MY DEAR GUY, MATTIE STEPANEK. YOU’VE BEEN WRITING POETRY SINCE YOU WERE HOW OLD? ABOUT THREE.AND SO, YOU STARTED CALLING IT HEART SONGS BECAUSE WHAT? IT WAS THE SONG IN MY HEART. IT WAS THE MESSAGE IN MY HEART. A HEART SONG DOESN’T HAVE TO BE A SONG IN YOUR HEART, EVEN TALKING ABOUT LOVE AND PEACE. IT CAN Merely BE YOUR MESSAGE. IT CAN BE YOUR FEELINGS. SOME PEOPLE MIGHT EVEN CALL IT A CONSCIENCE, EVEN THOUGH THAT’S NOT REALLY WHAT IT IS. IT’S YOUR MESSAGE, WHAT YOU FEEL YOU NEED TO DO. AND EVERYBODY HAS IT. EVERYONE, NO MATTER WHAT IT IS. IT STILL SINGS THE SAME BEAUTIFUL MESSAGE OF PEACE AND LOVE. THAT’S MATTIE. THAT’S MY GUY, MATTIE.[ APPLAUSE] AND HE LEFT THIS EARTH ON JUNE 22 nd IN 2004. AND LAST OCTOBER, I TRAVELED TO ROCKVILLE, MARYLAND, TO THE DEDICATION OF THE MATTIE J.T. STEPANEK PARK. JENI, MATTIE’S MOTHER, SAID THIS ABOUT HIS LIFE WORK. SHE SAID, “WHAT YOU CHOOSE TO THINK, SAY, AND DO IN EACH MOMENT IS YOUR SPIRITUAL MESSAGE.” AND NOW MATTIE’S MESSAGE OF HOPE AND PEACE LIVES ON. HE CONTINUES TO BE A SPIRITUAL TEACHER, OR THIS PARK WOULDN’T EXIST. SO, Expressed appreciation for, JENI. AND AS WE GO TO BREAK, HERE’S ONE OF MATTIE’S BEAUTIFUL POEMS. IT’S CALLED “WHEN I DIE.” Mattie: WHEN I DIE, I Require TO BE A CHILD IN HEAVEN, I Demand TO BE A 10 -YEAR-OLD CHERUB, I Require TO BE A HERO IN HEAVEN AND A PEACEMAKER, JUST LIKE MY GOAL ON EARTH, I WILL Request GOD IF I CAN HELP THE PEOPLE IN PURGATORY, I WILL Cure THEM THINK ABOUT THEIR LIFE, ABOUT THEIR SPIRITS, ABOUT THEIR FUTURE, I WILL Facilitate THEM HEAR THEIR HEART SONGS AGAIN, SO THEY CAN FINALLY SEE THE FACE OF GOD SO SOON, WHEN I DIE, I WANT TO BE JUST LIKE I WANT TO BE HERE ON EARTH. I HOPE THAT IF YOU TAKE ONE THOUGHT INTO THIS YEAR, IT’S THIS — YOU HAVE EVERYTHING YOU NEED RIGHT NOW NO MATTER WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE, AND All that is IS HAPPENING IS TRYING TO BRING YOU CLOSER TO WHAT YOU REALLY NEED AND WHAT IS REALLY REAL.TAKE THAT IN FOR A MOMENT. BE SURE TO JOIN US FOR A SPECIAL WORLDWIDE WEBCAST AS OUR CONVERSATION ON SPIRITUALITY CONTINUES. THANKS, EVERYBODY. THANK YOU.[ APPLAUSE] — Captions by VITAC — www.vitac.com9 3000:39: 50,360 –> 00:39: 47,797 CAPTIONS PAID FOR BY DISCOVERY COMMUNICATIONS.